LOVE IS OUR RELIGION by (me!) sandra, ttgp
there was a flyer near the register at coffee beans & bistro: "life's ultimate questions"
and first monday night of each month, dr. robert evans speaks on a topic. this past monday, the topic was, "one God or many Gods?"
charlie, owner of the coffee shop, described robert evans as a "very down to earth man,"
and because i had 7pm monday night availability, and because charlie dropped a kind word; i went.
i don't know, in a factual way, if what i'm about to type is true, but here is my take from that experience: the people who attended -ALL of the 15ish people who attended- outside of only myself, were people who already knew dr evans from their church: christ church, which meets locally at the middle school i believe, and where robert evans is a pastor.
robert evans: perfectly nice, warm/welcoming and experienced speaker.
people attending: perfectly nice, warm/welcoming.. kind and attentive listeners
and it was my intention to listen attentively also. i'm still a little shocked at how much talking i did. in fact, it turned out that the bulk of the evening was a conversation between dr robert evans and sandra kay ... save only a few questions/testimonies/comments/scripture readings from other people
i will sum it up as follows: dr robert evans is a devot christian. he believes and testifies that there is only one God. only one son of God - Jesus - only one true text - the bible - and this is the only truth, the real truth, nothing but the truth, and any/all other religions/belief systems are false. dr robert evans BELIEVES this, and no one will ever change his mind, and i believe he will go to his grave defending his beliefs.
sandra kay: attends pleasanton presbyterian on sundays, willingly, freely, happily. - believes christianity is a valid religion, but does not exclude the validity of other religions/faith systems. believes diversity in religions/faith systems is as natural/organic/valid as diversity of culture: language, food, dress, music, traditions, etc. puts the thought of "one true religion" in the same category as "one true language" "one true food" "one true music" -ludicrous; diversity is part of the greater design
i believe Jesus is one of many ways; not the one and only way.
i believe there are people all around the world, joining together and worshiping, and reading scripture, and coming to beliefs, and defending a variety of beliefs as passionately, as adamantly, as unwaveringly as devot christians believe in and defend Jesus.
i believe we each arrive at our "personal truths" based on geography, historical time of birth, life experiences - things/people/places we are, and are not exposed to. i believe there are, can be, and in fact, there should be, a variety of "personal truths" that can co-exist and be valid and be respected.
and this may seem incongruent -because i do believe in an absolute truth, however, as i said to dr evans, "i would never claim my personal truth is the absolute truth for all of humanity on planet earth in the milky way galaxy"
and so dr. robert evans stated his point 3 different times, in 3 different ways
and i stated my point 3 different times, in 3 different ways
both of us unwavering. occasionally, fellow church members would defend dr. robert evan's points, but this had no effect on me
"when moving forward toward world peace.. and please do answer this directly," i said, "which do you think progresses us toward that goal
my way or the highway religions, where the goal is to convert everyone to the same religion (and good luck on that, i thought to myself)
or an openness, tolerance and respect for other religions?"
and then to my surprise, a lady interrupted, she said to me, "it sounds like you are only interested in living in harmony while we are here.. but what about the afterlife.. how can you reconcile?"
and i said, "that's very right! i am most interested in living in harmony -here- right now on planet earth"
and a gentleman read from the bible.. beautiful passage.. "i am the way - the only way -
passage -don't worship false Gods -
and i emphasized there are other groups, each claiming the same "i am the way - the only way - don't worship false Gods -
and dr evans started in on a conversation about how actually there are not other religions with one true God
and to my surprise again.. a 10 minute cameo appearance from my writer friend grace and her husband.. and she jumped in to defend my statement, that there are other religions who claim their own, one, true, right God
the upshot for me was this:
1) wow. wow. wow... to any and all world leaders who attempt to understand and unite people with different belief systems.
2) i believe there is a "belief anatomy" -that is to say, there is a path, a path that begins with a certain flexibility.. exposure ... awareness.. opinion.. and then some series of events that ultimately cements thoughts/opinions/ideas into beliefs in our brains -the belief itself a variable; the cementing process fixed
now, if i were interested in world peace, and i am very interested in world peace, and i took a look-see into the hearts and minds of various religions and religious people around the world
i would quickly come to this conclusion: converting all people around the globe to one religion is not humanly possible and counterproductive in the effort towards world peace.
teaching/increasing tolerance, understanding, and respect for diversity of religions (as we should & do for diversity of cultures in general) - so that we are each free to maintain our own, unique and differing beliefs while co-existing in peace on the planet -this is both a possible and productive approach
caveat: because i believe in a "belief anatomy" -cemented/fixed belief pathway formed in our brains.. tolerance/respect/openness cannot be inserted in dry cement
tolerance/respect/openness to diversity must be taught... exposure to this idea, must take place within the flexible process so it becomes part of the cemented belief (as it is for me)
the smartest thing then, hard, cruel, but true... start with new generations.
i hear a certain negative/dismissive tone, a certain mocking these days, when people talk about "the newest western trend.. this 'all religions are valid' thing
for older people with cemented mind sets there is total resistance.. for people who already have my way or the highway religious beliefs.. no hope.
just listen to the tone of ridicule they employ when discussing the idea of tolerance. they cannot conceive of two people living next door to one another, with two different religions, each remaining true to their own religion, respecting the others without one trying to convert the other
but we are and will see more and more of this tolerance with new generations. (thank my loving God!) we are maturing, evolving..
i bring my children to church every sunday. we learn scripture. we pray as individuals and as a family. this is a wonderful, enriching part of our lives
but i am careful to point out this is only one of many churches; one of many belief systems around the world. -such a variety of churches/religions just within our small home town of pleasanton..
and we co-exist peacefully, respectfully.
write back to the beautiful lyrics in ziggy's song: "i don't condemn. i don't convert. love is my religion"
love is our religion.
i left before the discussion was officially over. 3 times/3 different ways for each of us, was already 2 times too many. i thanked him and everyone there for their hospitality. "and i am so glad to live in a town, a state, a country, where we can gather freely like this, and share our beliefs"
they were all very kind, smiling, warm.. completely unoffended by my alternative views, saying goodbye to me and welcoming me back anytime.
~sandra, ttgp
posted by SHE @ 8:02 AM
25 Comments:
You give me hope.
You preach it my sister! A resounding Amen to all you've said here.
God is love and Love is God and we are all just the servants of that great love.
Jesus was not a Christian and Buddha was not a Buddhist and Mohommad was not a Mohommadin.
It is great to have spiritual leaders to aspire to... to try and be Christlike or Buddhalike - is a wonderful, beautiful goal...
But if truth exists then why can't there me as many ways to it as there are grains of sand in the ocean.
I'm tired of just being 'tolerant' of others. I wish we could celebrate each other... the way you do.
Love, thanks and more love
M
This is a beautiful, wise, wonderful post. I love everything about everything you say here.
Love is our religion--Can you imagine what kind of a fabulous world we would be living in if everyone belonged to the Religion of Love? Doesn't it seem so natural?
No more fear, paranoia, aggression, jealousy, competition, ego, scarcity, exclusion...
Only love. Acceptance. Value. Joy.
On a good day I wake up and ask God that my only goal for the day be to love.
On an extraordinary day, I actually feel like I made some minor progress toward the goal.
Much love,
Kathy
Maybe Jesus alone is not enough for you? But why not ask the Triune God to reveal the truth about the question to you. Many people are sceptics but there is only one true God that can answer you.So why not ask for a revelation?
That is so awesome. I feel the same way you do about religion. I think there are many ways to get to God, reach out to her or what have you. But I don't talk about my beliefs too often in mixed company just because there's a certain stigma that gets attached to the word "pagan" or "Wiccan". Although some of my best religious discussions have been with Spiderlillies here at work-she's Christian but completely open minded and tolerant. She understands when I say, "You pray to He and I'll pray to She and it's in acuality the same thing. We just have different roads to take to get there." Anyway, rambly now so I am proud that you stood up and let your voice be heard. Love is the ultimate religion. :)
Amen, Sandra.
Kudos for your willingness to have the conversation with these folks. Some people need to believe that what they believe is the only and right way to God. God bless them, but I myself probably wouldn't have stayed to have the conversation you had. I would have quietly excused myself.
Maybe you shined a little light for them. Maybe not. But you shined light for us, and bless you for that.
Thanks for being you in this world, for walking with God, for being a light of hope.
my3: God is love. this feels very true for me..
and i like your vocabulary here.. because it is one thing to tolerate.. a better thing to respect.. but better still, to celebrate and ultimately
love. -which your words/spirit demonstrate and role model so consistently
dd: thank you! -and we have to imagine it in order to achieve it..
and how beautiful is this?
"On a good day I wake up and ask God that my only goal for the day be to love.
On an extraordinary day, I actually feel like I made some minor progress toward the goal."
what a great goal for all of us!
hg: it is the nature, the essence, of many of my prayers: gratitude & questions
"thank you! what do you want me to know/understand? use me"
karma: different roads to the same ultimate destination..
love. -so clear, simple, easy to put into words -but, wow! to the challenge this poses in our practical lives
"be the change you wish to see in the world" -this repeats in my mind with some frequency
ren: thank you! it was a re-education for me.. two cemented brains in conversation..
i like to believe there is value in these exchanges, but he did nothing to alter my belief, except maybe to further entrench it, and vice versa..
thank you for your wonderful comments! much love, ~s.
Just another quick note...
I saw Grace today and she told me with great animation about your experience and how very mad she got at this pastor and his know-it-all attitude and his condescending way of speaking.
We both marveled at how amazing and brave you are. And then I said, "You just can't argue with people like that."
And then I came here tonight and read Jim's comments and I had a total change of mind. Like Jim, I would have just walked away.
But that you stayed and debated and raised questions and spoke in what I am sure was an articulate and brilliant and loving way suddenly seemed like a very important thing to do. Something that had to be done.
And, as he said, "Maybe you shined a little light for them. Maybe not. But you shined light for us, and bless you for that."
Exactly. Maybe one or two of those 15 people that night might have been challenged to wedge open their minds a crack to let some light in.
Regardless, you have given the rest of us something substantial and wonderful to consider: A Religion of Love.
And I'm sitting on the back pew at the Church of Love
listening to you sing
and the choir
a chorus in the wind
saying
Amen, sweet friend, Amen.....
bbf, you are an incredible, amazing, spiritual, loving, brilliant, patient...shall I go on?
You are right that their kindness was a step in the right direction. And you are right you will never change their minds. But you know what? You don't have to. That's why you are you and they are them.
I don't think the ultimate goal is to get anyone to believe the same things. It's futile. When it all comes down to it, what human beings have in common in that we ALL have to live on this planet right NOW, and we have to try to do it without blowing ourselves up.
I've been in many churches where they preach "this is the ONLY way." But I don't believe that. I accept that it's "their" way. However, I won't open myself up for ridicule or allow intolerance to violate the right to religious freedom. Religious bullies are not acceptable.
This whole discussion is exactly why I'm Unitarian, by the way. One of their seven principles is, "The free and responsible search for truth and meaning." They are really into the "personal journey," no matter what that might be. Yes, it can be Christian. It can be agnostic. It can be Buddhist or Hindu or whatever mix the individual needs in order to "BE" spiritual and create a better world.
And they like Pagans, too, Karma. Just for the record.
**This endorsement is not sponsored or approved by any Unitarian Universalist church. The opinions and perceptions here represent those of the author only. End disclaimer.
: )
PEACE, ALL!
dd: -as i was a bit outnumbered, grace's appearance and knowledgable comments were quite a welcomed surprise
i did not feel as if robert evan's spoke condescendingly towards me, as a person - but rather towards my ideas
i am fascinated and sensitive to the power of words as a writer/reader, but even more so, fascinated and sensitive to the power of even slight/subtle vocal intonations, nuances of facial expressions, etc. when it comes to supporting or mocking ideas
influence in this general area, the effect it has on an audience
to his credit -when robert evan's reiterated my points, he was exactly correct.. a true listener.
and i would say my tone, and my facial expressions supported my ideas, while unintentionally, but authentically communicating that his "only way" belief was as ludicrous to me, as my "many ways" belief is to him
and because this cement-brain to cement-brain exchange is a microcosm of the issues faced by all people across the globe
i turn again to looking at the anatomy of belief systems vs. belief systems themselves..
and then found myself re-reading "world's religions -a guide to our wisdom traditions"
(and just had an image of robert evans re-reading his bible..)
and i like this passage:
pg 248: this is our final question. whether religion is, for us, a good word or bad; whether (if on balance it is a good word) we side with a single religious tradition or to some degree open our arms to them all, how do we comport ourselves in a pluralistic world that is riven by ideologies, sacred and profane?
we listen."
i would add to that: observe.
we listen and observe.
the natural progression from that is to analyze..
until we each reach that point of fact
"i am right. you are wrong"
and the whole thing starts again.
which brings me to the conclusion that in order to live in peace, we must respect (even celebrate) diversity of religions.
-see what i mean...
"to love!" ~s.
singtome: thank you..
"church of love"
how perfect is that! -and reminds me, how when our presbyterian church was soliciting ideas for a new name, for their new location
i showed up with a vote. (surprise!) -me. not even baptised or bible literate..
not even a member of the church
-what got into me?
but during my automatic/listening writing session -
opened to pg 787: corinthians
"and now these three remain: faith, hope and love. but the greatest of these is love"
i combine in my mind, the bible verse with the information in the book "blink"
i understand to some degree the power of words.. the power of visual images
i think in any city, neighborhood, community, the entire population would benefit from repeated exposure to those words:
faith. hope. love.
whether they ever stepped foot inside a church or not. faith, hope, love
basic human needs and gifts.
much love to you! ~s.
kmg/bbf: you have such a bright mind and (**) great sense of humor
"The free and responsible search for truth and meaning."
i like the idea of many paths to one truth
and i'm guessing the very birth of the unitarian church is the result of open and curious hearts/minds
open. curious. kind.
speaking of curious.. i will do more research, and am grateful (and smiling) for what you share here about the unitarian church
"they like pagans too"
i've noticed a euphemism employed here
not pagan, but "unchurched"
and for some reason, every time i hear it, or read it, or say it, i crack up inside
but when i went to vote on the new name for the presbyterian church, that's how i introduced myself
"my name is sandra kay, i represent the "unchurched" you might say.."
and they were very kind, welcoming, receptive
there are loving hearts everywhere i've found. loving hearts; cement brains; diverse religions.
"to love! and truth!" ~s.
You are the definition of cool
Of course they would welcome you back...outside of the obvious reasons, they would still like to convert you.;)
Religion & religious intolerance has been the biggest causation of war in history.
Sometimes us adults make things too complicated. Ask a small child What God is & usually, despite any particular religious upbringing, they will say 'God Is Love.' Ask them where he lives & they will either point to the skies or put their hand on their chest and say 'In Here'
I couldn't agree with you more. Our world is filled with diversity & in fact, dependant upon it...in a biological, scientific, physical way, as well as an esoteric, spiritual, emotional & religious way. We need these diversities to keep balance & gravity.
You write beautifully Sandra. Your words are always soooo moving. As I have read many of your comments out & about, I am always so impressed with what a beautiful soul you are. You not only see clearly, understand & accept things for what they are, acknowledge & give praise to the balance of the good & the bad, but your communicate so very well.
There has been more than one moment when I have thanked God, the angels, the moon, stars & the sun & the spirits that swell around us & within us for bringing you, your words & thoughts into my life. Not just here at your space or over at my space, but also in the spaces in between.
Sandra, it's late for me over here on the East coast... or early. Just wanted to say that I have heard about this church as a cultish sect of Christianity, which is very very demanding/insistant that one can learn about Jesus and God only through them, only through THEIR church. I don't believe that, and I believe belief is absolutely a choice. It sounds like both you and he went into the "discussion" wanting to express your own views - or more precisely, his stance as such led you to have to defend your views rather than appreciate his because he was telling you things thinking he knew all the answers, unopen to genuinely considering your thoughts and beliefs.
If any of us responding can definitively say "I am right, I am the most right" then there is probably something wrong with us :) And sure, we have the tendency to want to be right. But I think that I agree with Herman in that God is who He is, regardless of what we think He may be or tell Him He is. And isn't it better to have a God like that? Who wants to know us, but who is bigger, better, and more incredible than we can fully fathom and put into a limiting box?
I do believe that Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and that He died on a cross out of love for us, because we can't love like He can... and because He wants to be in a relationship with Him. This world is not as it was created to be, and we sense that "not quite right" sensation often in our every day lives through the imperfections, pain, strife, hatred, etc.
... But I believe anyone who isn't willing to discuss - openly - misses out on the grandeur of contemplation, theology, and the world.
Sandra, I appreciate your passion, desire, and willingness to partake in the discussion and to hear what this pastor was saying, no matter how challenging the situation. I appreciate your desire to grow and to know God. I appreciate you, for who you are. Thanks for sharing and for opening up the discussion to more than merely those present.
May you be blessed in your search, joyful despite challenges and strife, patient and loving despite ignorance and closed-mindedness. I wish you well and love the topic.
Blessings and joy,
H
ps - my mom shared this video with me, and it's awfully endearing. I not only like the story but I loved the "Bahstan" accents ;) I think you (and your readership) might really enjoy and appreciate it, and having just read your blog, seeing this made me want to share it with you.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=nZjZQ6KkiUk
Blessings and joy
H
"To being friends with crows and kittens!"
my3: thank you! -and you, the definition of love
slb: you put such a smile on my face and in my heart.. you've said it all quite elegantly here..
and always helps to look to our children.. to remind us
and i am so grateful for you also -thank the heavens and the blogosphere for connecting me with the likes of you, and singtome, your family and circle of friends
the creativity, the authenticity, the beauty, the love, the peace, the fantastic stories..
i'm elevated in the presence of your words, your thoughts, your pictures, your art, your experiences -thank you!
bh: thank you! i don't claim to know "the" truth, but i do know this: you have a heart of gold. you are part angel.. and your kindness, openness, thoughtfulness, honesty and insight gives christianity a good name
and you are, in part, a contributing factor in my ongoing church attendance, so thank you.
-and, quite a precious youtube video.. i'll share that with my children
much love all around! ~s.
Hello Sandra,
This is one of the attendees and I appreciate your candor and it was nice seeing your point of view and your eloquence. Love is important but must be balanced with Justice. You truncate God's Being when you mention only one aspect of His character. The Judeo/ Christian tradition has always affirmed One God-there is none other like Him! You may choose to disagree but in all fairness if you want to espouse love the truly loving thing would be to take what is said by the prophets of old and see if what they say makes sense.True ideas by their very nature exclude false ideas-Does that mean reality is intolerant then? By the way I just took my first poetry class and found a new appreciation for a form of expression that I have struggled with for years.
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference
Vance
vance: thank you for your kind words and comments. i am exactly in the ongoing process of doing that: reading about/& words written by various prophets
and congrats on your first poetry class. if you are local, this is a great/supportive area for poets of all ages/levels
check local paper for poetry readings at the century house in pleasanton, wine & words in livermore, saturday salons in livermore, poetry at towne center books.. open mics at coffee shops, the list goes on
and you make me smile.. wrote a college paper on that one..
love that mr. robert frost (God bless)
and borrowed from him, in jest, to conclude a poem of my own
two roads diverged in a wood, and i--
i took the one well paved. -now am a cliche'
should have went the other way
who put that fuckin' fork in the road anyway?!?
(always makes me laugh at my painful mistake).
"to poetry!" love, ~s.
Sandra,
Your new ending made me laugh out loud! Not easy to do!
Thanks so much!
Love,
Kathy
To poetry!
I like that.
The intolerant parts you described reminded me of the way the Crusaders thought. It's almost like people don't want to think about the fact that religious intolerance is against both the bible and the basic tenants of the nation we live in.
Your other posts were good, too. Even Ensler rocks.
And thank you for your very kind words in many other places.
To poetry!
and to dialog and discourse, as well.
basic tenets.
that's what I meant!
Hi Sandra,
What great discussion this has brought on. And yes one needs open discussion without running down anothers beliefs. At the same time I am called not to deny my God and to stand up for him. Simply first living the life I am called to as a believer which speaks louder than words. Then if asked on my beliefs to state the words given to me by God's Holy Spirit, as he promises. I preach amongst the poor in our informal settlements around Johannesburg but I also know that the fact od what I have been doing amongst them for 15 years has made the bigger impression of the God that I serve. So action in love speaks and if necessary use words.
dd: i am enjoying many smiles/thoughts/laughter from dalai dog also.. thanks!
1313/mr poetry: it didn't take me long, reading your comments, poetry, posts here in the blogosphere to see that you operate from a place of love, kindness and abundant creativity
you are adding/contributing to what is write and good in the world
this is what i see when i look around.. not so much what religion people are, but where they are at in their personal evolution
suffering;healing;reaching out?
asleep vs awake/aware?
and the more unconditional love a person is able to give AND receive
the closer in relationship to God they seem to me.
you and your wonderful poetry.. help me believe.
"to everyone's write to believe!"
hg: -and thank you! for adding to the discussion..
God bless you for the wonderful/meaningful work you are doing
outreach is one of the highest expressions of love; one of the most beautiful, powerful things humans can do for each other
and to the benefit of all mankind.
God shines through your words and the work you do
"to love in action!"
& much love all around, ~s.
Original post 12/05/2007
Post a Comment
<< Home